Active Thinking Topic 83  - Which Lies Can Your Brain Live With?

26 & 28 May 2024

Recommended viewing: Philip Fernbach (2018) "Why do we believe things that aren't true?" TEDx @ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jobYTQTgeUE  [15 minutes]

Talking Points

1. When is a lie OK, in your view, and when is it bad?

2. We all know that a spy, by definition, must live a double life. Now how many other people live a double life? That is, how many people (by choice or necessity) routinely lie in one of their roles - e.g. a job - in ways they would find unacceptable in private life? How do they justify this in their own minds? What effect does it have on their psychological health?

3. There are many stories of people either leave a cult, religion, ideology etc, OR alternatively they are converted to some set of beliefs. In both cases these individuals flip their concept of what is true. They are apt to say "I was living a lie". In some cases they are even prepared to kill or betray those who (now) disagree with them. What is it about the minds of such individuals which makes their concept of "truth" so rigid, yet so brittle?

4. We can probably all think of politicians who are pathological liars. However it is in the nature of politics that you have to please, or at least pacify, people & groups with conflicting interests. It that can't be done without deception, what are the limits?

5. Deception is routinely part of winning certain board games, winning wars, often when selling products, managing effectively in both companies and governments, and so on. The reasons for secrecy/security in both institutions and for individuals are also often justified as necessary tools to enable a deception. At what point do these routine deceptions and the lies which support them become toxic?

6. In most families (I think) children are taught that lying is wrong and are punished for it. Yet children also learn quickly from the actual behavior of people around them. What is the mix of inborn inclination, teaching and observation which makes children into what be might called "hones" or "dishonest" people?

7. Sometimes a whole society undergoes some turbulent, traumatic experience such as war or revolution. In the aftermath the new masters may set out to shape a new morality for everyone, even by "brainwashing". What are some historical examples of this? What have been some historical outcome - successes or failures - of such social engineering? [e.g. reference my linked article below, Thor May (Wuhan, 6 May 2000) "Honesty, Spirit and the Communist Way". Academia.edu repository @ https://www.academia.edu/118996732/China_in_2000_Honesty_Spirit_and_the_Communist_Way  ]

8. Individuals differ greatly both in background knowledge and sophistication. If a knowledgeable person gives a simple answer to fit the simple understanding of their listener, then they may be accused by others of lying. If they give a complex answer to a complex question, the simpler person(s) may accuse them of bullshitting. How can we manage the perception of "unintended lying". [Note that on a large scale this can lead to conspiracy theories, resentment of 'the deep state' etc]

9. All governments and most corporations engage in some kind of propaganda. Propaganda is a) outright lying; b) dealing with only partial truths; c) using deceptive language to conceal an actual state of affairs. Why do governments & corporations (or even individuals) do this? How can people, especially children, be inoculated against the influence of propaganda (or can't they be protected)?

10. There are cultures in which avoiding confrontation or unpleasant truths are seen as morally more important than blunt honesty. This avoidance often takes the form of lying. Australia is home to over 300 cultures now. How can these different moral value sets be reconciles?

Extra Reading & Viewing

Philip Fernbach (2018) "Why do we believe things that aren't true?" TEDx @ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jobYTQTgeUE  [15 minutes]

Richard Sima (November 7, 2022) "Why do our brains believe lies even when we’ve been told the truth?" The Age @ https://www.theage.com.au/lifestyle/life-and-relationships/why-do-our-brains-believe-lies-even-when-we-ve-been-told-the-truth-20221104-p5bvox.html  [Quote: "It’s been election cycle after election cycle packed with misinformation and conspiracy theories. So why do so many people believe the lies? Blame the brain. Many of the decisions we make as individuals and as a society depend on accurate information; however, our psychological biases and predispositions make us vulnerable to falsehoods. As a result, misinformation is more likely to be believed, remembered and later recalled – even after we learn that it was false. “On every level, I think that misinformation has the upper hand,” says Nathan Walter, a professor of communication studies at Northwestern University who studies the correction of misinformation".

Sherryn Groch (July 17, 2022) "Why do smart people join cults? And how do they get out of them?" The Age @ https://www.theage.com.au/national/why-do-smart-people-join-cults-and-how-do-they-get-out-of-them-20220315-p5a4uh.html  [Quote: "It’s not just doomsday bunkers and goat’s blood. Cults are all around the world, including in Australia. What are the red flags and how do cult leaders operate? ... Sarah Edmondson has been asked why she joined NXIVM more times than she can count. But it wasn’t until 2017, standing naked in the home of a friend as the women around her were branded with a cauterising iron, that Sarah really started asking herself that question too. How did she get here? Why did she join the North American self-help cult? Of course, when Sarah was on the inside, mixing with other celebrity members, following teachings she believed could change people’s lives, no one used the word “cult”. No one ever does. People join communities, not cults, says expert Dr Steve Hassan, who has worked with Edmondson and other cult survivors around the world. People think only the stupid or naive are recruited. But Hassan says he’s found the opposite is often true: Cults target the best and the brightest – actors like Edmondson, wealthy and connected movers and shakers such as the doctors and government officials who joined Australia’s most infamous cult, The Family".]

Thor May (Wuhan, 6 May 2000) "Honesty, Spirit and the Communist Way". The Passionate Skeptic website @ http://thormay.net/chinadiary/lies.html or Academia.edu repository @ https://www.academia.edu/118996732/China_in_2000_Honesty_Spirit_and_the_Communist_Way  [ Quote: "There are honest people in China, and there are people who are as honest as they dare to be. Yet this society expresses the extremes of tendencies which are found everywhere, and here we have an extreme of moral collapse. "Moral" is used in the sense of "honesty", not sexual license etc. The problem is NOT that of a community which historically never had moral frameworks within which to fudge but roughly conform to decency. The Confucian ethic, the Buddhist and Taoist ethics, and other philosophies certainly diverged from European notions in various aspects. But the underlying tenets were clear enough. A good man was known from a bad man. The Communist missionaries worked feverishly to sweep these obsolete moral systems away. They proclaimed the brotherhood of man (and woman), based on secular responsibility. For a generation this captivated the ideals of Chinese youth, and basically had them sacrifice personal goals for "the nation". Yet from the very beginning it was a false paradigm, for "the nation" turned out to be by no means the ordinary people of China. They were given ration cards and trinkets. In the old imperial system, the nation had been a fiefdom for a tiny clique of privileged men, headed by a titular emperor. There was nothing new under the sun that Chinese imagination could sustain after 1911, whatever the rhetoric of ideology. From 1949 "the nation" was actually code for the interests of one more group who had grabbed power and privilege: another tatty story of violent revolution eating its children."]

Thor May (2016) "Politics and Politicians : a volatile mix?" http://thormay.net/unwiseideas/Politicians.htm  [Quote: "Politics is like medicine: sometimes useful, even necessary, in small amounts, but fatal if taken in an overdose. Politicians can be a useful species but are prone to going feral. Democracies often elect either mediocrities or confidence tricksters because large numbers of electors share similar qualities. In practical terms, is there a better way to manage national affairs?"]

Thor May (2015) "The peculiar interest of god(s) in human morality" http://thormay.net/unwiseideas/peculiargod.htm  [Quote: “It is not necessary to believe in God to be a good person. In a way the traditional notion of God is outdated. One can be spiritual but not religious. It is not necessary to go to Church and give money – for many, nature can be a church. Some of the best people in history did not believe in God, while some of the worst deed were done in his name.” [Pope Francis (?) – supposedly misattributed to Francis in 2014. Hedged in 2015 to say there is no proof that he didn’t say it [ref. Wikiquote]. Many of his public statements can be interpreted to carry the sense of the disputed quotation]"

Thor May (2014) "Fakes, liars, cheats, deceivers, animals in the forest" Fakes, liars, cheats, deceivers, animals in the forest". Passionate Skeptic website @ http://thormay.net/unwiseideas/FakesLiarst.htm  [Quote: "It’s all around us. From face lifts to luxury cars on hire purchase, from inflated CVs to exaggerated job titles, from company publicity material to the spin that governments put on their failures and deceptions. At what point does fakery become fraud? Would the world be a duller place without it?"]

Thor May (2014) "Crime without Punishment - the journey from means to ends". Passionate Skeptic website @ http://thormay.net/unwiseideas/CrimeWithoutPunishment.htm  [Quote: "Sooner or later everyone – individuals, governments, companies – has to make choices about whether to put aside certain values to achieve a desired end". Michael Pascoe, an Australian financial journalist, has recently discussed this at http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/business/comment-and-analysis/abandon-principles-and-pay-the-price-20140331-35tz4.html 

Thor May (2013) "Ethical Behaviour is Harder for the Rich".
http://thormay.net/unwiseideas/Ethical-Behaviour-is-Harder-for-the-Rich.htm  [Quote: "This little essay is about (my ideas of) the behaviour of the rich. Of course all kinds of people are rich for all kinds of reasons (ditto for the poor). Nevertheless I will argue that rich people demonstrate ethics in ways which are consistent with broad human tendencies. Depending upon the social context of their wealth (e.g. corporate versus inherited) that wealth might influence them to exhibit particular behaviours. Yet those habits will merely be a subset of something much more general. Ethics, at bottom, is sourced in the evolutionary behaviour of the species".

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Which Lies Can Your Brain Live With? (c) Thor May 2024

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