Active Thinking Topic 68 - Magical Thinking - What Dives It?
October 17 2023
Any replies to the organizer
- thormay@yahoo.com
Venue: Zoom online
"As children, many of us had
imaginary BFFs. As adults, we take the game to a new level
with magical thinking. In the broad sense, magical thinking
occurs when we believe that our thoughts extend into and/or
can change the external world. Praying for rain, for
example". [Jane's
Journals @
https://www.janesjournals.com/2017/06/03/magical-thinking/
]
Recommended viewing: The Big Think (9 Jun 2012) "Magical Thinking: Matthew Hutson - Author of The Seven Laws of Magical Thinking." Interview @ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bHezJeZdAKo [15 minutes] [Thor, comment: This is a low key interview, but the points made are very clear]
Talking Points:
1. When does wishful thinking become magical thinking? Examples? How about the self-improvement books which promise you can do anything, reach any peak, by imagining yourself there first?
2. What's the best balance between honest disagreement and silent compliance with BS? Looking back on a wandering non-career, I recall often being seen as a bad influence for playing devil's advocate, looking for the weaknesses in the grand (or petty) schemes of managers etc when their ideas seemed like magical thinking. One pasted a Peanuts cartoon on my office door which read "It often shows a fine command of language to say nothing .. ".
3. How does scientific method (it has various forms) differ from magical thinking? When does this distinction become blurred?
4. Magical thinking of some kind often feels like comfort food for the mind when we are stressed or threatened. This kind of magical thinking can also be shared and accepted socially. As a prayer or offering (depending on the religion etc) it might preserve hope. When is such magical thinking beneficial, and when does it become toxic? Examples?
5. Education systems typically package a collection of "knowledge" into a degree or diploma program and market it to students, who then sell it to employers as proof that they competent in some field. Why is this claim to competence magical thinking?
6. Religions and ideologies obviously have many emotional, social and political uses. However their foundation doctrines always appeal to a set of assumed beliefs about nature, history (for Marxism) or supernatural influence (gods, spirits etc). Their followers claim that none of this is magical thinking ... Well, are they right or wrong? Argue the case.
7. Some personality types are easily sucked into the black holes of conspiracy theories (examples?). They always have company, and find 'the cause' emotionally rewarding. They are outraged to be accused of magical thinking. Of course, there are plenty of real conspiracies (examples?). How can we separate real conspiracies from the imagined type? How should we handle those whom we consider deluded by their magical thinking?
8. Is prophecy a form of magical thinking? Every society and culture has wannabe prophets as well as ancient systems of prophecy (e.g. astrology, I-ching etc). Why are prophets and prophecies still widely believed, regardless of education systems?
9. Two centuries ago village life was fairly simple for everyone. Now our societies are vast, with multiplying complexity. Those mentally equipped to handle various levels of complexity have become elites. A large and increasing numbers of people (including wannabe leaders) push buttons but have no idea how it all really works. Whether it is car engines or a modern economy or quantum mechanics, for them the phrase "science says" is placing faith in magic. How will the struggle between the "science is magic" people and the knowledge elites play out?
10. What part does magical thinking play in your own life? Could you really do without it, or is an essential safety net when all else fails?
Links & Videos
The Big Think (9 Jun 2012) "Magical Thinking: Matthew Hutson - Author of The Seven Laws of Magical Thinking." Interview @ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bHezJeZdAKo [15 minutes] [Thor, comment: This is a low key interview, but the points made are very clear]
Matthew Hutson, (published March 1, 2008 - last reviewed on April 9, 2018) "Magical Thinking - Even hard-core skeptics can't help but find sympathy in the fabric of the universe—and occasionally try to pull its strings". @ https://www.psychologytoday.com/au/articles/200803/magical-thinking
Wikipedia (2023) "Magical Thinking" @ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magical_thinking [Quote: "Magical thinking, or superstitious thinking, is the belief that unrelated events are causally connected despite the absence of any plausible causal link between them, particularly as a result of supernatural effects. Examples include the idea that personal thoughts can influence the external world without acting on them .. "]
Jane's Journals (June 3, 2017) "Magical Thinking" jane@janesjournals.com @ https://www.janesjournals.com/2017/06/03/magical-thinking/ [Quote: "As children, many of us had imaginary BFFs. As adults, we take the game to a new level with magical thinking. In the broad sense, magical thinking occurs when we believe that our thoughts extend into and/or can change the external world. Praying for rain, for example".
Elle Hunt (Thu 21 Apr 2022) "Is ‘manifesting’ dangerous magical thinking or a formula for success?". The Guardian @ https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2022/apr/21/is-mainfesting-real-the-secret
Stuart McGurk (20 Mar 2022) "Making dreams come true: inside the new age world of manifesting - Can hopes become reality just through the power of positive thinking? Yes, say the latest new age gurus and their – suggestible – audiences." The Guardian @ https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2022/mar/20/making-dreams-come-true-inside-the-new-age-world-of-manifesting
Thor May (2014) "Does religion emerge as a product of complex systems?" @ http://thormay.net/unwiseideas/Religion.htm [Quote: "Why do people take up religions, persist with them, and abandon them ? Whatever you think of religions personally, or any particular religion, they seem to have been around forever amongst (most) humans, and seem unlikely to go away entirely amongst the species as a whole. Clearly though, particular cultures in various historical phases have many members who are attracted to religions or substitute ideologies, but tend to drift away from them in other phases. At a different level, women seem to be the most persistent believers by numbers, but religious hierarchies are almost always controlled by (humourless old) men… What is it in human psychology that generates these religious phenomena? Since religion is universal across human groups, yet not universal within groups, does it embody some optional extra mechanism in the complex systems we call mind? Is it species specific? … the questions are endless, and we can scarcely answer them here, but following a long human tradition, I have written a small allegory to explore some possibilities". ]
Chad E. Brack (November 18, 2018 ) "Defining Rationality: Are Humans Irrational?" @ https://chadebrack.com/are-humans-rational-what-is-rationality/ [Quote: " It seems that people tend to use the evidence they have available, the evidence they understand, or the evidence they want to believe to form their beliefs. They tend to reject evidence they don’t understand or don’t want to believe, and there are a myriad of conscious or subconscious reasons for accepting explanations that don’t hold up to scrutiny. In the case of conspiracy theories, it’s often more ‘rational’ for people to accept a conspiracy theory than it is to accept the official story because the conspiracy theory fits better into their world view .."]
Miriam Schoenfield (n.d.) "Why do you believe what you do? Run some diagnostics on it". @ https://aeon.co/ideas/why-do-you-believe-what-you-do-run-some-diagnostics-on-it?utm_source=pocket&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=pockethits [Quote: "Many of the beliefs that play a fundamental role in our worldview are largely the result of the communities in which we’ve been immersed. Religious parents tend to beget religious children, liberal educational institutions tend to produce liberal graduates, blue states stay mostly blue, and red ones stay mostly red. Of course, some people, through their own sheer intelligence, might be able to see through fallacious reasoning, detect biases and, as a result, resist the social influences that lead most of us to belief".]
Thor May (1987) "Super-Culture And The Ghost In The Machine" @ http://thormay.net/unwiseideas/skeptic/philos7.html [Quote: "This little essay is a bit mischievous, and apparently politically incorrect enough to have sparked outrage in the minds of some sensitive souls from the polite dinner party set. Although it has no claims to academic decency, I have preserved it online as a stimulant to fancier research, since I think the metaphor the essay runs on captures some essential truths."]
Thor May (2015) "Thor May The peculiar interest of god(s) in human morality" @ http://thormay.net/unwiseideas/peculiargod.htm [.. old html, best read on a larger screen]
Luke Brady (9 Nov 2018) "Magical Thinking". TEDx Talks @ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a35olPwpD_g
----------------------
Recommended viewing: The Big Think (9 Jun 2012) "Magical Thinking: Matthew Hutson - Author of The Seven Laws of Magical Thinking." Interview @ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bHezJeZdAKo [15 minutes] [Thor, comment: This is a low key interview, but the points made are very clear]
Talking Points:
1. When does wishful thinking become magical thinking? Examples? How about the self-improvement books which promise you can do anything, reach any peak, by imagining yourself there first?
2. What's the best balance between honest disagreement and silent compliance with BS? Looking back on a wandering non-career, I recall often being seen as a bad influence for playing devil's advocate, looking for the weaknesses in the grand (or petty) schemes of managers etc when their ideas seemed like magical thinking. One pasted a Peanuts cartoon on my office door which read "It often shows a fine command of language to say nothing .. ".
3. How does scientific method (it has various forms) differ from magical thinking? When does this distinction become blurred?
4. Magical thinking of some kind often feels like comfort food for the mind when we are stressed or threatened. This kind of magical thinking can also be shared and accepted socially. As a prayer or offering (depending on the religion etc) it might preserve hope. When is such magical thinking beneficial, and when does it become toxic? Examples?
5. Education systems typically package a collection of "knowledge" into a degree or diploma program and market it to students, who then sell it to employers as proof that they competent in some field. Why is this claim to competence magical thinking?
6. Religions and ideologies obviously have many emotional, social and political uses. However their foundation doctrines always appeal to a set of assumed beliefs about nature, history (for Marxism) or supernatural influence (gods, spirits etc). Their followers claim that none of this is magical thinking ... Well, are they right or wrong? Argue the case.
7. Some personality types are easily sucked into the black holes of conspiracy theories (examples?). They always have company, and find 'the cause' emotionally rewarding. They are outraged to be accused of magical thinking. Of course, there are plenty of real conspiracies (examples?). How can we separate real conspiracies from the imagined type? How should we handle those whom we consider deluded by their magical thinking?
8. Is prophecy a form of magical thinking? Every society and culture has wannabe prophets as well as ancient systems of prophecy (e.g. astrology, I-ching etc). Why are prophets and prophecies still widely believed, regardless of education systems?
9. Two centuries ago village life was fairly simple for everyone. Now our societies are vast, with multiplying complexity. Those mentally equipped to handle various levels of complexity have become elites. A large and increasing numbers of people (including wannabe leaders) push buttons but have no idea how it all really works. Whether it is car engines or a modern economy or quantum mechanics, for them the phrase "science says" is placing faith in magic. How will the struggle between the "science is magic" people and the knowledge elites play out?
10. What part does magical thinking play in your own life? Could you really do without it, or is an essential safety net when all else fails?
Links & Videos
The Big Think (9 Jun 2012) "Magical Thinking: Matthew Hutson - Author of The Seven Laws of Magical Thinking." Interview @ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bHezJeZdAKo [15 minutes] [Thor, comment: This is a low key interview, but the points made are very clear]
Matthew Hutson, (published March 1, 2008 - last reviewed on April 9, 2018) "Magical Thinking - Even hard-core skeptics can't help but find sympathy in the fabric of the universe—and occasionally try to pull its strings". @ https://www.psychologytoday.com/au/articles/200803/magical-thinking
Wikipedia (2023) "Magical Thinking" @ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magical_thinking [Quote: "Magical thinking, or superstitious thinking, is the belief that unrelated events are causally connected despite the absence of any plausible causal link between them, particularly as a result of supernatural effects. Examples include the idea that personal thoughts can influence the external world without acting on them .. "]
Jane's Journals (June 3, 2017) "Magical Thinking" jane@janesjournals.com @ https://www.janesjournals.com/2017/06/03/magical-thinking/ [Quote: "As children, many of us had imaginary BFFs. As adults, we take the game to a new level with magical thinking. In the broad sense, magical thinking occurs when we believe that our thoughts extend into and/or can change the external world. Praying for rain, for example".
Elle Hunt (Thu 21 Apr 2022) "Is ‘manifesting’ dangerous magical thinking or a formula for success?". The Guardian @ https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2022/apr/21/is-mainfesting-real-the-secret
Stuart McGurk (20 Mar 2022) "Making dreams come true: inside the new age world of manifesting - Can hopes become reality just through the power of positive thinking? Yes, say the latest new age gurus and their – suggestible – audiences." The Guardian @ https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2022/mar/20/making-dreams-come-true-inside-the-new-age-world-of-manifesting
Thor May (2014) "Does religion emerge as a product of complex systems?" @ http://thormay.net/unwiseideas/Religion.htm [Quote: "Why do people take up religions, persist with them, and abandon them ? Whatever you think of religions personally, or any particular religion, they seem to have been around forever amongst (most) humans, and seem unlikely to go away entirely amongst the species as a whole. Clearly though, particular cultures in various historical phases have many members who are attracted to religions or substitute ideologies, but tend to drift away from them in other phases. At a different level, women seem to be the most persistent believers by numbers, but religious hierarchies are almost always controlled by (humourless old) men… What is it in human psychology that generates these religious phenomena? Since religion is universal across human groups, yet not universal within groups, does it embody some optional extra mechanism in the complex systems we call mind? Is it species specific? … the questions are endless, and we can scarcely answer them here, but following a long human tradition, I have written a small allegory to explore some possibilities". ]
Chad E. Brack (November 18, 2018 ) "Defining Rationality: Are Humans Irrational?" @ https://chadebrack.com/are-humans-rational-what-is-rationality/ [Quote: " It seems that people tend to use the evidence they have available, the evidence they understand, or the evidence they want to believe to form their beliefs. They tend to reject evidence they don’t understand or don’t want to believe, and there are a myriad of conscious or subconscious reasons for accepting explanations that don’t hold up to scrutiny. In the case of conspiracy theories, it’s often more ‘rational’ for people to accept a conspiracy theory than it is to accept the official story because the conspiracy theory fits better into their world view .."]
Miriam Schoenfield (n.d.) "Why do you believe what you do? Run some diagnostics on it". @ https://aeon.co/ideas/why-do-you-believe-what-you-do-run-some-diagnostics-on-it?utm_source=pocket&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=pockethits [Quote: "Many of the beliefs that play a fundamental role in our worldview are largely the result of the communities in which we’ve been immersed. Religious parents tend to beget religious children, liberal educational institutions tend to produce liberal graduates, blue states stay mostly blue, and red ones stay mostly red. Of course, some people, through their own sheer intelligence, might be able to see through fallacious reasoning, detect biases and, as a result, resist the social influences that lead most of us to belief".]
Thor May (1987) "Super-Culture And The Ghost In The Machine" @ http://thormay.net/unwiseideas/skeptic/philos7.html [Quote: "This little essay is a bit mischievous, and apparently politically incorrect enough to have sparked outrage in the minds of some sensitive souls from the polite dinner party set. Although it has no claims to academic decency, I have preserved it online as a stimulant to fancier research, since I think the metaphor the essay runs on captures some essential truths."]
Thor May (2015) "Thor May The peculiar interest of god(s) in human morality" @ http://thormay.net/unwiseideas/peculiargod.htm [.. old html, best read on a larger screen]
Luke Brady (9 Nov 2018) "Magical Thinking". TEDx Talks @ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a35olPwpD_g
----------------------
Magical Thinking - What Dives It? (c) Thor May 2023